If possible, please could someone give an update on what is now happening to HMS Plymouth?

F E SHARPE

Plymouth

MYSTERY SHIP

07:30 - 17 May 2008

F e SHARPE (May 7) wants to know about the ongoing saga of HMS Plymouth. The latest edition of Warship World mentions that the MoD recently carried out a survey of the vessel: for whom, for what purpose and at whose expense? What was the result? I thought the MoD sold the ship to a preservation group years ago, so why was the taxpayer-funded MoD involved in the survey? Is it to try and persuade the public a nuclear submarine still owned by the MoD should be used as a tourist attractions at South Yard, albeit with its nuclear power unit removed - in other words, a phoney exhibit?

MIKE STANLEY

Plymouth

At first I thought the caller was winding me up, pulling my leg or setting me up to be laughed at or ridiculed.There are still some ‘harbour-minded’ folk who, a year or so back, scoffed at my suggestion of ‘grounding’ an aircraft carrier or a decommissioned car-carrier off Freshwater Quarry, to use as a tourist attraction-cum-car park.

I still reckon the basic idea had some merit, but believing in democracy, the project was cast into the ‘delete’ section of my brain.

Anyway, back to the telephone call. The gentleman calmly explained that it had come to his knowledge that the Admiralty were looking for a permanent berth for the frigate HMS Plymouth and he wondered what my thoughts were on mooring the vessel within Brixham’s outer harbour?
When I realised he was serious, my mind went into overdrive planning the best berth - the old fuelling jetty on the end of the breakwater? - with a mini bus service out the breakwater or water taxis servicing the visiting public to the ship.

She could be used as a floating - not grounded - Naval museum, with perhaps the Brixham Heritage museum housed within the ample accommodation.

Plus, she’d make a good conference centre, harbourmaster’s offices, pilot station or a sail-training school ??? the list goes on.

From the internet it appears that HMS Plymouth is berthed in Birkenhead while a permanent berth is being sought. She was destined for Plymouth’s Millbay Docks but apparently, perhaps because of commercial development in that port, that idea seems to have been scuppered.

Perhaps I’ll get in touch with ex-RN man Danny Irvine and sound him out on the idea.

HMS Plymouth would lie afloat at the breakwater’s old Esso jetty. But this wouldn’t afford her perfect safety unless a northern arm protected the outer harbour.

Having said that, the total regeneration development of the outer harbour is dependent on thousands of tons of stone being strategically placed between Battery Point and the existing breakwater.

The new fishmarket and new trawler berths will certainly require untroubled waters for safe working.

I’m quite happy to debate this controversial issue. Only the other day a delightful local lady voiced her concern on the amount of funding required to construct another breakwater, saying: “In the past, speaking to older fishermen, they say a northern arm isn’t necessary.”

Maybe, but that was partly because back in the ‘old days’ the working section of the harbour, fish landings, berthing, and so on, was done in the sheltered inner harbour area. Plus, the ol’ boys realised that another outer ’stone wall’ would cost them more in extra fish landing tolls.

I’ve steadfastly maintained that there are ways of funding a northern arm without filling the open spaces of Oxen Cove and Freshwater Quarry with high-rise apartments, second homes or multi-berthed private marinas.

What this port cries out for is decent marine repair facilities, coupled with additional parking and free flowing garden areas for locals and visitors to enjoy.

These can certainly be achieved without the natural shoreline being blighted by skyscrapers or misguided ‘visions’.

IN THE past, distant mumbles from Torquay Town Hall began with, ‘The trouble with Brixham is apathy! The residents don’t know what they want’.

Personally, I’ve never really subscribed to that theory. The unfortunate truth is that the south side of Torbay suffers from a ‘numbers’ problem.

Torbay Council’s collective power of 36 elected members makes it slightly lopsided for Brixham’s political benefit. Having only five representatives, it’s sometimes difficult to gain a voice or a fair vote.

Experienced politicians tell me it’s down to residential voters within the three towns. Apparently, we only have two wards, Berry Head with Furzeham and St Mary’s with Summercombe while Paignton has six and Torquay has seven wards.

Until last Saturday I was prepared to dismiss the apathy theory pointed at Brixham, believing that we DO care. We DO have opinions as to how we should live.

As a committed community we are more than ready to speak up for what we believe to be fair???

But then I discovered there were fewer than 50 residents sitting in the Community Hall at the annual meeting of BASRA, Brixham Amenity Society and Residents Association.

With membership reaching nearly 600, 50 was a sorry reflection of community concern.

Reaching towards great changes in regeneration and development that will affect the way our future is mapped out, I’d have thought there’d be standing room only at the annual meeting.

Many of the town’s business and professional people were nowhere in sight. I could see no representatives of various prominent associations who state they care what happens.

Could they not spare an hour or two to voice an opinion?

To their credit, town councillors, Chris Bedford, Peter Killick, Mike Morey and Gordon Boote - with Chris Lomas in charge of the PA system - answered questions with a great deal of genuine commitment.

People in the audience complained about the disgraceful state of many of our roads, potholes and pavements.

They also displayed anger at the possible loss of Wishing’s Field, historically used by kids as a play area, for further housing development.

Concern was expressed over Tesco’s delay with plans and public consultation that will change the skyline within the town centre.

They also showed disgust at Torbay Council’s enforcement officer, who, without apparent consideration for the personal circumstances of some Bolton Street residents, posted ‘threatening’ letters of intent. Consequently, although only 50 strong, the sparks flew.

Concern was voiced regarding the venue, date and time of BM21’s annual meeting, which for some reason has not been widely publicised. It was established that the meeting takes place at the Berry Head Hotel on Tuesday at 7.15pm. All are welcome.

Chairman Edgar Lawrance wisely drew the meeting to a close as the start-time for the Grand National drew closer.

Fat lot of good it did me as my selections either fell or got pulled up. I must remember to ask Edgar, in the theme of Grotbusters, if he backed Comply or Die?

We have in fact been up to all sorts of things, as some of you may know we had an excellent splash of publicity last November courtesy of the Plymouth Evening Herald and Lord Owen who spoke on our behalf at ‘Making Plymouth Great’, a business to business exhibition at Plymouth University.

Lord Owen has expressed considerable interest in our cause and spoken on our behalf on several other occasions.

It might seem a little unbelievable at this stage and some will ask why haven’t we said this before but we have discovered ‘options’ here in Plymouth.  None are ideal, which is why we haven’t acted on any or publicised our findings.

There are disused commercial moorings on the Tamar which could (at a cost) be upgraded and adapted for Plymouth’s use (the owner of the moorings has been approached and ‘agreed in principle’ that they could be used by Plymouth).  It has also been suggested that she could be ‘mounted’ off the Northern side of Mountbatten breakwater.  We think that this idea would be even more difficult and expensive than the preferred ‘golden option’ of a pocket berth in Sutton harbour (which was estimated circa £2 million) but perhaps someone knows better, and even better, might be able to help? 

The latest option to be explored was to sit ‘on the mud’ alongside Howard’s Quay on the river Plym.  The area is (currently) not the ideal spot for tourism being next to a scrapyard and close to a South West Water treatment plant but, there’s a lot of space and a quayside in good condition.  Image courtesy OF ‘Google Earth’.

The quay has been mostly cleared since this image was taken so car parking and building (?) should pose no problem and the road access is being improved.

We aren’t saying ‘let’s take her there next Spring’ but the site remains an option and doesn’t stop us from moving her elsewhere in the future.  Having said that, the owner is looking for a ‘long term’ deal.  For those that want to place the quay geographically, it’s around 250m South of Laira bridge which IS the main road linking Plymouth to Plymstock and the South Hams.  Plymouth would certainly dominate the local skyline.  Image courtesy OF ‘Google Earth’.

The benefits OF being alongside far outweigh the cheaper option of a mooring IN that power, water and waste disposal are readily available and access is simple and not weather dependant.  It’s not Sutton harbour, it’s not even Vittoria dock but it’s better than a beach in India or Indonesia!

One of our most vociferous supporters, Professor David Salter (Plymouth City Councillor and cabinet member) still has hopes of berthing in Sutton harbour, as I’m sure we would all like to do but the price tag may preclude that option, unless there’s a very wealthy ‘type 12 fan’ out there watching and waiting for the perfect moment!

 There have been a couple of items on the Association’s message board recently about getting more publicity and stimulating wider interest, about which we don’t disagree but as I stated earlier, we had some terrific radio, TV and newspaper coverage and support last year.  The Associations funds have grown but WML have gained no further offers of  (financial) support and yes, we have asked.  Most importantly despite our publicity, no offer of a berth has come forward apart from those mentioned above and they came about through our own research (Howard’s Quay at the suggestion of a friend of Lord Owen).

AS we’ve said on many occasions (courtesy Mike Critchley) ‘we could have millions IN the bank (AND a host OF willing volunteers, ED) but it’s of no use without a wall to park against’!

‘I’m 47 years old. I’m an executive and I’ve worked in the French shipbuilding industry since 1985.

I’ve been involved in attempts in France to save 2 ships. One is the former France and then Norway passenger ship. She has very unusual funnels at least. I’ve fought quite a lot to help trying saving her and the battle is now nearly for sure lost. To me it’s painful.

The other one is the Colbert. She is a cruiser completed in 1959. She became a museum in 1993 I think. At first it worked well but later, in the town where she was, the environment and the position of the mayor changed a lot. Also the French State remained her owner and that mayor asked to get her taken away. She is now somewhere else, not open to the public, and is expected to be scrapped towards 2010, being kept til then to provide spare parts if needed. I still hope it might change. After I learned things were going wrong for her, I looked at the web to know more about the situation of HMS Belfast and HMS Plymouth to get ideas for the Colbert. This is how I got aware of the problem OF HMS Plymouth.

I’ve invested that sum of money to try to help saving for a long time HMS Plymouth mainly because :

- I think, in the long term, it will make sense saving her for a long time (because, ED) the Leanders, , Whitbys, Salisburys and Leopards had in common a somewhat unusual hull and foredeck shape in front of the main front turret.

- This ship means something to me, as I spent all together about 2 months in and around Plymouth in the 70s and in 1980 and I started reading regularly magazines related to ships in 1975.

Also,
- I already gave, but far less, in 1988 or 1989 to help saving her, and I would be sad to see that previous effort being somewhat wasted.

- I found it was a very good idea to consider selling the ship after running her as a museum, if we had made before good enough business, as it meant we might not invest “for ever”. (recoup investments after sale? ED)

Furthermore, when I went to watch The Who near Liverpool last June, I was pleased to see that HMS Plymouth was still in Birkenhead and still looked OK from the distance. I had imagined that I could then learn that she had gone for scrap. I would be sad to see that pleasing moment followed by a disappointment’.

TRISTAN NICHOLS MARITIME AND DEFENCE REPORTER

07:30 - 15 November 2007

Former city MP Lord Owen has outlined his vision to bring HMS Plymouth back to the city to form part of a national Falklands War Museum.The outspoken figure spoke of his desire to bring back the frigate - which played a key role in the Falklands conflict - during a tour of the vessel, presently berthed in Birkenhead.

Also, speaking earlier this week at the launch of Making Plymouth Great at the start of National Enterprise Week, Lord Owen said: “HMS Plymouth was built at Devonport Royal Dockyard and served with great distinction in the Falklands.

“Indeed, her captain, David Pentreath, took the surrender of South Georgia in the ship’s Wardroom.

“As a former Navy Minister, Foreign Secretary and local MP, I believe this ship represents much of what makes Plymouth great on the international stage and I welcome Warship Management Limited’s proposal to return her to her home port. I believe the benefits to tourism will be very significant.”

LAST week, Lord Owen - who was IN Liverpool TO hand out degree awards IN his role AS Chancellor OF Liverpool University - was taken FOR a tour OF the disused shipyard AT Birkenhead.

During the visit, he said he hoped TO have the TYPE 12 frigate towed TO a TEMPORARY berth AT the Plymouth City Council-owned Commercial Wharf ON the Barbican, LEADING eventually TO a Falklands War museum AND memorial being based there.

He said the long-term VIEW was TO transfer the frigate TO South Yard, leaving the positive legacy OF a fine deep berth IN the Cattewater FOR future maritime use.

HMS Plymouth campaigners Warship Management Limited ARE working ON a plan TO see the idea come TO fruition.

The move comes AS the HMS Plymouth Association reveals it has raised MORE than £20,000 towards bringing the vessel back TO Plymouth AND IS now awaiting news OF a suitable berth. It IS believed it will cost around £100,000 TO buy the ship AND tow her back TO Plymouth.

Malcolm Bell, chief executive OF South West Tourism, said he valued the benefits OF bringing the frigate TO its namesake city.

He said: “We would love to see this ship in Plymouth, because as it says at the railway station: ‘Plymouth - the Home of the Navy’ and many of our visitors from the UK and overseas would expect to visit at least one warship as part of their time here.”

Andrew Robertson, managing director OF the NATIONAL Marine Aquarium, added: “If HMS Plymouth can come back to a berth near the Aquarium, the synergies between the two marine attractions will be enormous.

“This proposal has REAL vision AND I strongly support it.”

HMS Plymouth played a crucial role in the 1982 Falklands war. After leaving active service in 1989, it was due to be sunk as a missile target, but campaigners saved it as a national memorial to Britons who died in the South Atlantic conflict. The frigate has since been on public display in Plymouth, Glasgow and Birkenhead, where it was given a dry dock home.

But in early 2006, its berth there was needed for a shoreside redevelopment and the owners at that time, the Warship Preservation Trust, went into administration.

Ownership transferred to the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board, which now wants to sell the frigate.

Warship Management Limited, which was set up last year to negotiate the purchase and movement of the vessel, has met with the board.

A Plymouth City Council spokesman said the authority welcomed the idea, stating: “We have said before that, AS a council, we acknowledge the continued efforts OF Warship Management Limited TO bring HMS Plymouth TO the city.

“In the right location, and supported by a business plan that shows the ship can be suitably interpreted and maintained, HMS Plymouth would add to attractions available to visitors to the city.”

He said the council was NOT aware OF calls FOR a museum TO commemorate the Falklands conflict, but added: “It is an interesting idea and we look forward to hearing more details of how this might be achieved.”

ONE of the remaining historic warships in Birkenhead could have a new home in the town she was named after.

HMS Plymouth had been part of the warship collection in Birkenhead docks, which closed two years ago when it lost its funding.

Other ships, such as the submarine HMS Onyx, which has gone to Barrow, and U534, which will form the centrepiece of an attraction at Woodside, have new homes ready or in preparation.

Argentine forces in South Georgia signed their surrender in the wardroom of HMS Plymouth.

The frigate was one of the first Navy ships to arrive in the South Atlantic after the Argentine invasion.

Yesterday Lord Owen, who as Chancellor of Liverpool University was in the region to hand out degree awards, was taken for a tour.

As MP for Plymouth, and a former minister of the Navy from 1968-70, he had taken great interest in her fate.

He said he hopes to have the ship towed to a temporary berth at Plymouth, leading eventually to a Falklands War museum and memorial there.

Lord Owen said the Falklands conflict had been the “last great naval battle” and added: “It’s absolutely scandalous that there IS NOT a museum TO remind people.”

PONTOON IDEA A TOURIST DRAW 
 
STUART ABEL HERALD REPORTER

07 September 2007
 
A pontoon should be SET up TO give a berth TO large visiting ships TO provide a new tourist attraction FOR Plymouth, according TO a GROUP promoting the city AS a maritime destination.  George Skinner, a director OF Maritime Plymouth, wants a mooring SET aside FOR vessels such AS tall ships which otherwise bypass the city.

He said that a pontoon could be SET up off OF the Elphinstone car park IN Sutton Harbour, which IS already used FOR power boats taking part IN the annual championships. The car park could provide easy access TO the PUBLIC.

Mr Skinner was talking after a ship used IN the blockbusting Pirates OF the Carribean films called AT Plymouth TO take ON supplies but could NOT be visited by members OF the PUBLIC.

HMS Bounty, which was billed AS Captain Jack Sparrow’s ship the Black Pearl but later turned out to be another ship used in the films, docked at Victoria Wharf in Coxside for five hours.

Crowds watched her sail into port but could not visit her alongside because there are no publicly accessible moorings in the Cattewater.

Mr Skinner said that the owners of the ship, en route from Liverpool to Torquay, had contacted harbour authorities asking whether she could be moored alongside in Plymouth.

He added: “We ended up turning her away, but for a short victualling stop. Sutton Harbour is so full at the moment but there is a place where she could be tied up alongside, and that is by the Elphinstone car park.”

Mr Skinner said it did not matter so much that the Black Pearl turned out to be the Edinburgh Trader, which was used in two of the films.

He added: “It does not matter whether she was the Black Pearl or the Black Pig. The fact is that she was a fine ship and Plymouth missed out on having her here.

“I am sure that there are many vessels such as the tall ships which would consider docking in Plymouth if there was a mooring.

“One of the problems with Plymouth is that nobody thinks ahead to the future. Everyone wants an instant return on their investment.”

There were calls earlier this year to moor the former frigate HMS Plymouth at the Elphinstone car park as a tourist attraction.

Richard’s combined experience of working on the tax affairs of entrepreneurial businesses as well as his international tax expertise makes him eminently qualified to head up one of the most highly skilled tax departments outside the country’s largest practices.

Richard is a chartered accountant, chartered tax adviser, trust and estate practitioner, maritime author and enthusiast.  He’s also provided services to the Falkland Government for the last 17 years and has visited the islands 9 times.

Richard was also Company Secratary of the former HMS Plymouth Preservation Trust which was set up to manage and run the ship in Millbay.

Malcolm Bell, Chief Executive.

As you can see from our growing list of supporters we already have help with dredging, engineering, marketing and P.R. architects, accounting and multi media but we still need the people listed below to help complete our business case.

1) Potential development partners with experience in sympathetic re-development of ‘prime’ listed waterside property.

2) Investors, the project is now considerably bigger than the Millbay option and will therefore require larger capital investment.  So if your’e interested in warships or prime waterside re-development we’d like to hear from you.